Difference between revisions of "Conversations with Chris"
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Hmmm. I agree with accessible, and if the EC fails in this respect, your concern would be correct. "Appealing" however, not so much. In fact, there is much that comes from God that doesn't appeal to the masses (think of the OT prophets, for example). When I think of generations, I often think of my parents: they are quite content and find God easily within the religious systems of the modern age. I have no right to take that away from them. But those systems that have worked so well for them are failing for those who are coming of age in a postmodern world. (Check out anything by George Barna for more on this). Actually, I think it's more than generational shift -- I think (as do many in the EC) that we're in the midst of a large scale historical and cultural shift, much like the one that led from the Medieval period into the Renaissance and Reformation. | Hmmm. I agree with accessible, and if the EC fails in this respect, your concern would be correct. "Appealing" however, not so much. In fact, there is much that comes from God that doesn't appeal to the masses (think of the OT prophets, for example). When I think of generations, I often think of my parents: they are quite content and find God easily within the religious systems of the modern age. I have no right to take that away from them. But those systems that have worked so well for them are failing for those who are coming of age in a postmodern world. (Check out anything by George Barna for more on this). Actually, I think it's more than generational shift -- I think (as do many in the EC) that we're in the midst of a large scale historical and cultural shift, much like the one that led from the Medieval period into the Renaissance and Reformation. | ||
| − | + | You mentioned in your email not to look for concrete answers nor doctrinal positions. Is it the view of the EC'er that doctrine is unimportant or a non-issue? | |
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Just for clarification, what do you mean when you say "EC'er?" Personally, I don't think that doctrine is unimportant -- I just think that in the past 50 years, we have given it way too much importance -- to the point where the Christian church is fragmented into a million pieces over doctrinal issues like "baptism by immersion or by sprinkling?" A lot of Emerging Churches I've visited use a very simple doctrinal statement, if they use one at all, for example, The Apostle's Creed. | Just for clarification, what do you mean when you say "EC'er?" Personally, I don't think that doctrine is unimportant -- I just think that in the past 50 years, we have given it way too much importance -- to the point where the Christian church is fragmented into a million pieces over doctrinal issues like "baptism by immersion or by sprinkling?" A lot of Emerging Churches I've visited use a very simple doctrinal statement, if they use one at all, for example, The Apostle's Creed. | ||
| − | + | One reason our Pastor is so keyed up about EC and EV is he believes it can rekindle the appreciation of the mystery of God , rather than cling to things like reason which tries to explain everything. I confess, most of my ideas about God are the product of a modern mind. I do cling to things like reason. It seems inescapable to me. | |
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I believe there is room in the Kingdom of God for Modern thinkers and Post-Modern thinkers alike. I think it would be just as much a mistake for someone to force an "emergent" way of thinking upon a non-emergent person as it would be for a modern person to reject or dismiss the EC out of hand. You may be a modernist, but I am glad and grateful that you are approaching this in earnest and with attempt at an open mind. I hope your pastor appreciates and respects that about you as well. | I believe there is room in the Kingdom of God for Modern thinkers and Post-Modern thinkers alike. I think it would be just as much a mistake for someone to force an "emergent" way of thinking upon a non-emergent person as it would be for a modern person to reject or dismiss the EC out of hand. You may be a modernist, but I am glad and grateful that you are approaching this in earnest and with attempt at an open mind. I hope your pastor appreciates and respects that about you as well. | ||
| − | + | The other thing I'm having a hard time picturing about EC, and maybe this is where you can be of most help, is how the EC works in it's practical applications. Is it just about getting along with everyone in the world? How would you answer someone who is poor and has little education if they asked the question: who is God and what is He like? I realise that EC is non-traditional but, are there any non-negotiables when it comes to the faith itself? | |
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That's a big question (how does EC work in practical applications), and perhaps too broad for me to condense into a paragraph. There is an excellent book on just that subject, however. It's called Emerging Worship by Dan Kimball. It's the second in a series, the first being "The Emerging Church" which kind of goes in more depth about some of the issues we're discussing here. Getting along with everyone in the world is certainly a great place to start. If only it were that easy, right? | That's a big question (how does EC work in practical applications), and perhaps too broad for me to condense into a paragraph. There is an excellent book on just that subject, however. It's called Emerging Worship by Dan Kimball. It's the second in a series, the first being "The Emerging Church" which kind of goes in more depth about some of the issues we're discussing here. Getting along with everyone in the world is certainly a great place to start. If only it were that easy, right? | ||
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As far as non-negotiables, would you mind if I asked you first what you consider to be the non-negotiables in faith? That might better help me guage what we're getting at here... | As far as non-negotiables, would you mind if I asked you first what you consider to be the non-negotiables in faith? That might better help me guage what we're getting at here... | ||
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| − | + | I think one of the biggest things that has blown many (but not all) of my fears out of the water was reading Brian McLaren's open letter to Chuck Colson. I'm sure you've read it. I think that letter had to have done more to mend fences and engender understanding between Christians than anything I can think of recently. Do you know if Colson ever responded to that letter? | |
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Yes. He did. And his response is intelligent, well-worded and thought out, but also very much unmoving in any of his traditional positions. If I can find the link, I'll email it to you. Perhaps it just proves that intelligent people, Christians even, can still disagree about things of great importance. Does that mean that Colson is right and McLaren is wrong? Or the other way around? I don't know. Is it possible for two intelligent Christians to both be right when they disagree completely? Or perhaps they are both wrong? I do think we tend to turn many things into win-lose situations in our culture. I don't know if that's ultimately helpful or not. But I liked McLaren's open letter to Colson, too. Actually, I like most everything I've read from Brian McLaren, especially his "New Kind of Christian" trilogy. | Yes. He did. And his response is intelligent, well-worded and thought out, but also very much unmoving in any of his traditional positions. If I can find the link, I'll email it to you. Perhaps it just proves that intelligent people, Christians even, can still disagree about things of great importance. Does that mean that Colson is right and McLaren is wrong? Or the other way around? I don't know. Is it possible for two intelligent Christians to both be right when they disagree completely? Or perhaps they are both wrong? I do think we tend to turn many things into win-lose situations in our culture. I don't know if that's ultimately helpful or not. But I liked McLaren's open letter to Colson, too. Actually, I like most everything I've read from Brian McLaren, especially his "New Kind of Christian" trilogy. | ||
| − | + | Well, I guess I've thrown a lot out there already and I'm sure I have a lot of misconceptions. Anxious to hear your responses. | |
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Keep 'em coming! After all, I did say it's all about relationships, right? Take care, and I look forward to hearing from you again shortly, | Keep 'em coming! After all, I did say it's all about relationships, right? Take care, and I look forward to hearing from you again shortly, | ||
Neal | Neal | ||
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Revision as of 22:28, 27 August 2007
Neal,
I'm switching to my personal email account now that I've reached you.
Thanks so much for your willingness to engage. I sincerely appreciate it. I have really been hungry to learn about the EC movement and there is a lot of stuff swimming around my little coconut.
Neal,
Sorry, I accidently hit the send button on that last email. To continue.
I've been reading so much about the movement and have tried hard not to pre-judge (although I confess I have done so). As I continue to read up on it, I find my judgments are not holding up. Many things about the movement make sense and are attractive. I still have concerns though. One thing I've noticed is, it seems generationally narrow in its focus. I would think if something is from God it's got to be accessible/appealing to the broadest cross-section of people. You mentioned in your email not to look for concrete answers nor doctrinal positions. Is it the view of the EC'er that doctrine is unimportant or a non-issue? One reason our Pastor is so keyed up about EC and EV is he believes it can rekindle the appreciation of the mystery of God , rather than cling to things like reason which tries to explain everything. I confess, most of my ideas about God are the product of a modern mind. I do cling to things like reason. It seems inescapable to me. The other thing I'm having a hard time picturing about EC, and maybe this is where you can be of most help, is how the EC works in it's practical applications. Is it just about getting along with everyone in the world? How would you answer someone who is poor and has little education if they asked the question: who is God and what is He like? I realise that EC is non-traditional but, are there any non-negotiables when it comes to the faith itself?
I think one of the biggest things that has blown many (but not all) of my fears out of the water was reading Brian McLaren's open letter to Chuck Colson. I'm sure you've read it. I think that letter had to have done more to mend fences and engender understanding between Christians than anything I can think of recently. Do you know if Colson ever responded to that letter? Well, I guess I've thrown a lot out there already and I'm sure I have a lot of misconceptions. Anxious to hear your responses.
Peace and God bless, Chris ;-)
Hi Chris -- I'm going to try to respond to your questions as best as I can by interspersing comments in your original email below (in red). Please remember that I don't speak "officially" for any particular organization, including the PCUSA, but just from my own point of view, which my wife tells me sometimes goes off the deep end! Nevertheless, I hope you find it useful.
I've been reading so much about the movement and have tried hard not to pre-judge (although I confess I have done so). As I continue to read up on it, I find my judgments are not holding up. Many things about the movement make sense and are attractive. I still have concerns though.
Good. I hope you continue to have concerns and questions and doubts and preconceived notions throughout your spiritual journey. It's what makes us human. And, it's what keeps things like "The Reformation" or "The Emerging Church" from becoming idols that we worship in lieu of God.
One thing I've noticed is, it seems generationally narrow in its focus. I would think if something is from God it's got to be accessible/appealing to the broadest cross-section of people.
Hmmm. I agree with accessible, and if the EC fails in this respect, your concern would be correct. "Appealing" however, not so much. In fact, there is much that comes from God that doesn't appeal to the masses (think of the OT prophets, for example). When I think of generations, I often think of my parents: they are quite content and find God easily within the religious systems of the modern age. I have no right to take that away from them. But those systems that have worked so well for them are failing for those who are coming of age in a postmodern world. (Check out anything by George Barna for more on this). Actually, I think it's more than generational shift -- I think (as do many in the EC) that we're in the midst of a large scale historical and cultural shift, much like the one that led from the Medieval period into the Renaissance and Reformation.
You mentioned in your email not to look for concrete answers nor doctrinal positions. Is it the view of the EC'er that doctrine is unimportant or a non-issue?
Just for clarification, what do you mean when you say "EC'er?" Personally, I don't think that doctrine is unimportant -- I just think that in the past 50 years, we have given it way too much importance -- to the point where the Christian church is fragmented into a million pieces over doctrinal issues like "baptism by immersion or by sprinkling?" A lot of Emerging Churches I've visited use a very simple doctrinal statement, if they use one at all, for example, The Apostle's Creed.
One reason our Pastor is so keyed up about EC and EV is he believes it can rekindle the appreciation of the mystery of God , rather than cling to things like reason which tries to explain everything. I confess, most of my ideas about God are the product of a modern mind. I do cling to things like reason. It seems inescapable to me.
I believe there is room in the Kingdom of God for Modern thinkers and Post-Modern thinkers alike. I think it would be just as much a mistake for someone to force an "emergent" way of thinking upon a non-emergent person as it would be for a modern person to reject or dismiss the EC out of hand. You may be a modernist, but I am glad and grateful that you are approaching this in earnest and with attempt at an open mind. I hope your pastor appreciates and respects that about you as well.
The other thing I'm having a hard time picturing about EC, and maybe this is where you can be of most help, is how the EC works in it's practical applications. Is it just about getting along with everyone in the world? How would you answer someone who is poor and has little education if they asked the question: who is God and what is He like? I realise that EC is non-traditional but, are there any non-negotiables when it comes to the faith itself?
That's a big question (how does EC work in practical applications), and perhaps too broad for me to condense into a paragraph. There is an excellent book on just that subject, however. It's called Emerging Worship by Dan Kimball. It's the second in a series, the first being "The Emerging Church" which kind of goes in more depth about some of the issues we're discussing here. Getting along with everyone in the world is certainly a great place to start. If only it were that easy, right?
Who is God and what is He like? Is there a simple answer to that question? Perhaps one of the things I like about the EC is that it seems to acknowledge that there are no simple answers, even to one who is poor and with little education. But there is something better than an answer, and that is a relationship. I may not be able to condense God into a five to ten word sentence, but I hope that by living the way Jesus taught us, and loving others the way he loved us, my life can in part answer that question for others.
As far as non-negotiables, would you mind if I asked you first what you consider to be the non-negotiables in faith? That might better help me guage what we're getting at here...
I think one of the biggest things that has blown many (but not all) of my fears out of the water was reading Brian McLaren's open letter to Chuck Colson. I'm sure you've read it. I think that letter had to have done more to mend fences and engender understanding between Christians than anything I can think of recently. Do you know if Colson ever responded to that letter?
Yes. He did. And his response is intelligent, well-worded and thought out, but also very much unmoving in any of his traditional positions. If I can find the link, I'll email it to you. Perhaps it just proves that intelligent people, Christians even, can still disagree about things of great importance. Does that mean that Colson is right and McLaren is wrong? Or the other way around? I don't know. Is it possible for two intelligent Christians to both be right when they disagree completely? Or perhaps they are both wrong? I do think we tend to turn many things into win-lose situations in our culture. I don't know if that's ultimately helpful or not. But I liked McLaren's open letter to Colson, too. Actually, I like most everything I've read from Brian McLaren, especially his "New Kind of Christian" trilogy.
Well, I guess I've thrown a lot out there already and I'm sure I have a lot of misconceptions. Anxious to hear your responses.
Keep 'em coming! After all, I did say it's all about relationships, right? Take care, and I look forward to hearing from you again shortly,
Neal
