Sermon for October 8th, 2017 - Revision history

Iraneal at 12:58, 8 October 2017

2017-10-08T12:58:48Z

Iraneal at 12:50, 8 October 2017

2017-10-08T12:50:46Z

Iraneal at 05:06, 8 October 2017

2017-10-08T05:06:07Z

Iraneal at 03:36, 8 October 2017

2017-10-08T03:36:13Z

Iraneal at 03:12, 8 October 2017

2017-10-08T03:12:21Z

Iraneal at 03:05, 8 October 2017

2017-10-08T03:05:37Z

Iraneal at 02:54, 8 October 2017

2017-10-08T02:54:53Z

Iraneal at 23:50, 7 October 2017

2017-10-07T23:50:34Z

Iraneal at 23:49, 7 October 2017

2017-10-07T23:49:24Z

Iraneal at 23:41, 7 October 2017

2017-10-07T23:41:01Z

@@ Line 77: / Line 77: @@
 Here at First Presbyterian Church, we take in refugees too.  Sometimes it's an organization, (like Kids-N-Co, or our Zumba classes) that doesn't have a home and can't afford one.  We open our doors and make space for them.  Sometimes it's individuals--spiritual refugees who have been rejected or persecuted in other churches for their questions, their doubts, their lifestyle, or even their marriage.  We open our doors and welcome them in.  And sometimes, it's actual refugees, fleeing danger and persecution in places like Syria, Mexico, and Asia.  Many times, we have opened our doors and worked to provide a new home and a better life.  In a larger sense, we are all refugees fleeing from something in this world, or in our past, seeking shelter and peace and a new beginning.  And so we come to this place.
-First Presbyterian Church is, by no means, God.  But I like to think that as best as we can, on a much smaller scale, we model that example of God's Unconditional Election.  When we open our doors, we try hard not to attach any strings or preconditions.  Many who come to us find peace and comfort here, and that's enough.
+First Presbyterian Church is, by no means, God.  But I like to think that as best as we can, on a much smaller scale, we model and embody the principles of God's Unconditional Election.  When we open our doors, we try hard not to attach any strings or preconditions.  Many who come to us find peace and comfort here for a time, and that's enough.
-But every now and then, in some divinely appointed way that we cannot entirely comprehend, God will take
+But every now and then, in some divinely appointed way that we cannot entirely comprehend, God chooses one of us, one of his "refugees" in this place, not out of any merit or anything special on our part, but to use for his purpose to accomplish some greater good--to make this church, this community, this city, this world, in this lifetime, a better place for everyone...in some big way, or even in some very small, but significant way.

@@ Line 71: / Line 71: @@
 Calvin responded to Cardinal Sadoleto, "I cannot understand why you have addressed to us such a long exordium on the importance of the future life with which we are continually preoccupied, but I will say that it is unworthy of a theologian to permit man to be so concerned about himself and not rather to make zeal for God's glory the chief object of his life . . . the Christian man should aspire to a loftier goal than the salvation of his soul."
+But every now and then, in some divinely appointed way that we cannot entirely comprehend, God will take
-−
-−
-−
-As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”  26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they shall be called children of the living God.”

@@ Line 67: / Line 67: @@
 In any case, worrying about the next life doesn't do much except distract us from what God is calling us to do in this life.  And yes, here (finally!) is where God actually DOES want us to DO something, to choose something--not for the sake of procuring our own salvation, not out of hope for reward, or fear of punishment, but simply because we, like God, genuinely desire the best for this world we all share, and for the people we call neighbors.
-Calvin understood this well.  In 1539, when people were flocking to Calvin's city of Geneva to join the ranks of the Reformation, the Roman Catholic Cardinal, Jacob Sadoleto, told them that "there is a better chance of security in the Church tradition of fifteen hundred years than among innovators (like Calvin) with only twenty-five years standing.  A Catholic who at the Judgment Day declares his fidelity to the ancient faith, even if he is wrong, will stand a better chance because of sincerity, humility and obedience than will an arrogant innovator."
+Calvin understood this well.  In 1539, when people were flocking to Calvin's city of Geneva to join the ranks of the Reformation, the Roman Catholic Cardinal, Jacob Sadoleto, tried to stop them, telling them that "there is a better chance of security in the Church tradition of fifteen hundred years than among innovators (like Calvin) with only twenty-five years standing.  A Catholic who at the Judgment Day declares his fidelity to the ancient faith, even if he is wrong, will stand a better chance because of sincerity, humility and obedience than will an arrogant innovator."
 Calvin responded to Cardinal Sadoleto, "I cannot understand why you have addressed to us such a long exordium on the importance of the future life with which we are continually preoccupied, but I will say that it is unworthy of a theologian to permit man to be so concerned about himself and not rather to make zeal for God's glory the chief object of his life . . . the Christian man should aspire to a loftier goal than the salvation of his soul."

@@ Line 51: / Line 51: @@
 Did Jacob go to heaven and Esau go to hell?  Frankly, we don't know that.  All we are told is that God chose the elder (Esau) to serve the younger (Jacob).  In this life, not the one to come.
-The next example is God choosing a bad guy, Pharoah.  Verse 17: "For the scripture says to Pharaoh, “I have raised you up for the very purpose of showing my power in you, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.”
+The next example is God choosing a bad guy, Pharaoh.  Verse 17: "For the scripture says to Pharaoh, “I have raised you up for the very purpose of showing my power in you, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.”
-Again, is there anything here about Pharoah being chosen for eternal damnation and torment?  No.  God chose Pharoah to serve a particular purpose (although a pretty nefarious one) on this earth, in this life.
+Again, is there anything here about Pharoah being chosen for eternal damnation and torment on account of all his badness?  No.  God chose Pharoah to serve a particular purpose, God's purpose, on this earth, in this life.
 For his next example, in Verse 21, Paul uses a metaphor: "Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one object for special use and another for ordinary use?"  Note here that both ojects are used, and both for good purpose.  We can presume, I think, that neither piece of pottery lives forever or experiences eternal bliss or torment.  Instead, the potter uses one--in this lifetime--for ordinary use, and the other--in this lifetime--for special use.
-See the pattern?  If God chooses or elects some (but not others) for special purposes, it is for special purposes in this lifetime.
+See the pattern?  If God chooses or elects some (but not others) for special purposes, it is for special purposes in this world, in this lifetime.
-In Darwinian Evolution, there is a similar concept.  Instead of Divine Election, it's called Natural Selection.  I believe that God is the creator of nature and all natural processes, so this is not a big jump to make.  Natural selection happens because each of us inherits a set of genes from our parents.  Every so often, one of these genes mutates--not because of anything we did, but simply out of random chance (or divine providence, take your pick).  Sometimes that mutation has no notable effect, and life goes on...until it doesn't.  But sometimes, that mutation confers a special advantage on its recipient, one that increases the likelihood that it will live longer, reproduce, and pass that mutated gene on to its offspring, thus multiplying the advantage, spreading it to others, and eventually improving the entire gene pool.  That's natural selection.
+In Darwinian Evolution, there is a similar concept.  Instead of Divine Election, it's called Natural Selection.  I believe that God is the author of nature and all natural processes, so this is not a big jump to make.  Natural selection happens because each of us inherits a set of genes from our parents.  Every so often, one of these genes mutates--not in response to anything we did, but before we were born, out of random chance (or divine providence, take your pick).  Sometimes that mutation has no notable effect, and life goes on...until it doesn't.  But sometimes, that mutation confers a special advantage on its recipient, one that increases the likelihood that it will live longer, reproduce, and pass that mutated gene on to its offspring, thus multiplying the advantage, spreading the advantage to others, and eventually improving the entire gene pool.  That's natural selection.
-And I think it's a great way to understand the Doctrine of Unconditional Election, too.  In every generation, God chooses some--individuals, groups, or entire peoples--unconditionally, through no merit of their own, to use for his special purposes.  Always, in the stories of Scripture and faith, those purposes are for the multiplication and spread of goodness and love, for the improvement of humanity and all creation.
+And I think it's a great way to understand the Doctrine of Unconditional Election, too.  In every generation, God chooses some--individuals, groups, or entire nations--unconditionally, through no merit of their own, to use for his special purposes.  Always, in the stories of Scripture and faith, those special purposes are for the multiplication and spread of goodness and love, for the improvement of all humanity and all creation.
 But Pastor Neal--what happens to me after I die?  Let me be honest:  I don't know.  No one does, no matter what they promise.  We can hope for renewed life, we can trust that we are in God's hands, we can even believe (as we do) in resurrection and eternity.  But if we really knew for sure, it wouldn't be called "faith," would it?
-In any case, worrying about the next life doesn't do much except distract us from what God is calling us to do in this life.  And yes, here is where God actually DOES want us to DO something, to choose somehing--not for the sake of our own salvation, not out of hope for reward or fear of punishment, but simply for the good of the world we live in and the people we call our neighbors.
+In any case, worrying about the next life doesn't do much except distract us from what God is calling us to do in this life.  And yes, here (finally!) is where God actually DOES want us to DO something, to choose something--not for the sake of procuring our own salvation, not out of hope for reward, or fear of punishment, but simply because we, like God, genuinely desire the best for this world we all share, and for the people we call neighbors.

@@ Line 61: / Line 61: @@
 In Darwinian Evolution, there is a similar concept.  Instead of Divine Election, it's called Natural Selection.  I believe that God is the creator of nature and all natural processes, so this is not a big jump to make.  Natural selection happens because each of us inherits a set of genes from our parents.  Every so often, one of these genes mutates--not because of anything we did, but simply out of random chance (or divine providence, take your pick).  Sometimes that mutation has no notable effect, and life goes on...until it doesn't.  But sometimes, that mutation confers a special advantage on its recipient, one that increases the likelihood that it will live longer, reproduce, and pass that mutated gene on to its offspring, thus multiplying the advantage, spreading it to others, and eventually improving the entire gene pool.  That's natural selection.
-And I think it's a great way to understand the Doctrine of Unconditional Election, too.  In every generation, God chooses some--unconditionally, through no merit of their own--for his special purposes.  Always, in the stories of Scripture and faith, those purposes are for the multiplication and spread of goodness and love, for the improvement of humanity and all creation.
+And I think it's a great way to understand the Doctrine of Unconditional Election, too.  In every generation, God chooses some--individuals, groups, or entire peoples--unconditionally, through no merit of their own, to use for his special purposes.  Always, in the stories of Scripture and faith, those purposes are for the multiplication and spread of goodness and love, for the improvement of humanity and all creation.
 But Pastor Neal--what happens to me after I die?  Let me be honest:  I don't know.  No one does, no matter what they promise.  We can hope for renewed life, we can trust that we are in God's hands, we can even believe (as we do) in resurrection and eternity.  But if we really knew for sure, it wouldn't be called "faith," would it?
-In any case, worrying about the next life doesn't do much but distract us from what God is calling us to do in this life.
+In any case, worrying about the next life doesn't do much except distract us from what God is calling us to do in this life.  And yes, here is where God actually DOES want us to DO something, to choose somehing--not for the sake of our own salvation, not out of hope for reward or fear of punishment, but simply for the good of the world we live in and the people we call our neighbors.
-The great reformer John Calvin understood this, I think.
+John Calvin understood this, I think.

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:54, 8 October 2017
Line 44:		Line 44:

	I think the Reformers were right about the way God works, but their cosmology is now about 500 years out of date, and in need of a refresh. So to follow in their footsteps and in their methods, to "reform the reformers," we go back to the same source they did: The scriptures. In particular, today's passage from Romans 9.		I think the Reformers were right about the way God works, but their cosmology is now about 500 years out of date, and in need of a refresh. So to follow in their footsteps and in their methods, to "reform the reformers," we go back to the same source they did: The scriptures. In particular, today's passage from Romans 9.
		+
		+	In this passage, the Apostle Paul is talking about God choosing people. The first example is God choosing Jacob over his twin brother Esau. I'm going to read verse 11, but as I'm reading I want you to listen to see if you can tell exactly WHAT God is choosing Jacob for and what God is choosing Esau for.
		+
		+	Verse 11: Even before they had been born or had done anything good or bad (so that God’s purpose of election might continue, not by works but by his call) she was told, “The elder shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “I have loved Jacob, but I have hated Esau.” 14 What then are we to say? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
		+
		+	Did Jacob go to heaven and Esau go to hell? Frankly, we don't know that. All we are told is that God chose the elder (Esau) to serve the younger (Jacob). In this life, not the one to come.
		+
		+	The next example is God choosing a bad guy, Pharoah. Verse 17: "For the scripture says to Pharaoh, “I have raised you up for the very purpose of showing my power in you, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.”
		+
		+	Again, is there anything here about Pharoah being chosen for eternal damnation and torment? No. God chose Pharoah to serve a particular purpose (although a pretty nefarious one) on this earth, in this life.
		+
		+	For his next example, in Verse 21, Paul uses a metaphor: "Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one object for special use and another for ordinary use?" Note here that both ojects are used, and both for good purpose. We can presume, I think, that neither piece of pottery lives forever or experiences eternal bliss or torment. Instead, the potter uses one--in this lifetime--for ordinary use, and the other--in this lifetime--for special use.
		+
		+	See the pattern? If God chooses or elects some (but not others) for special purposes, it is for special purposes in this lifetime.
		+
		+	In Darwinian Evolution, there is a similar concept. Instead of Divine Election, it's called Natural Selection. I believe that God is the creator of nature and all natural processes, so this is not a big jump to make. Natural selection happens because each of us inherits a set of genes from our parents. Every so often, one of these genes mutates--not because of anything we did, but simply out of random chance (or divine providence, take your pick). Sometimes that mutation has no notable effect, and life goes on...until it doesn't. But sometimes, that mutation confers a special advantage on its recipient, one that increases the likelihood that it will live longer, reproduce, and pass that mutated gene on to its offspring, thus multiplying the advantage, spreading it to others, and eventually improving the entire gene pool. That's natural selection.
		+
		+	And I think its a great way to understand the Doctrine of Unconditional Election, too.
		+
		+
		+
		+
		+	22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience the objects of wrath that are made for destruction; 23 and what if he has done so in order to make known the riches of his glory for the objects of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 including us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
		+
		+	25 As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” 26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they shall be called children of the living God.”

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:50, 7 October 2017
Line 43:		Line 43:
	When the 16th century reformers spoke of election, they really did mean that God chooses some people for eternal salvation in heaven up in the sky, and God chooses others for eternal damnation in hell somewhere down below. That was the universally accepted cosmology of the time. The reformers just asserted (like Paul before them) that God does not choose which group we're in based on anything we say, or do, or believe. Hence "unconditional election."		When the 16th century reformers spoke of election, they really did mean that God chooses some people for eternal salvation in heaven up in the sky, and God chooses others for eternal damnation in hell somewhere down below. That was the universally accepted cosmology of the time. The reformers just asserted (like Paul before them) that God does not choose which group we're in based on anything we say, or do, or believe. Hence "unconditional election."

−	I think the Reformers were right about the way God works, but their cosmology is now about 500 years out of date, and in need of a refresh. So to follow in their footsteps, to reform the reformers, we go back to the same source they did: The scriptures. In particular, today's passage from Romans 9.	+	I think the Reformers were right about the way God works, but their cosmology is now about 500 years out of date, and in need of a refresh. So to follow in their footsteps and in their methods, to "reform the reformers," we go back to the same source they did: The scriptures. In particular, today's passage from Romans 9.

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:49, 7 October 2017
Line 41:		Line 41:
	But mostly these days, when someone asks when I was saved, I'll just turn the question back around and ask them, "Saved from what? Or whom?" I actually do know what they mean--they generally mean "When were you saved from eternal damnation and the fires of hell?" but most people are too polite to say that.		But mostly these days, when someone asks when I was saved, I'll just turn the question back around and ask them, "Saved from what? Or whom?" I actually do know what they mean--they generally mean "When were you saved from eternal damnation and the fires of hell?" but most people are too polite to say that.

−	When the 16th century reformers spoke of election, they really did mean that God chooses some people for eternal salvation in heaven up in the sky, and God chooses others for eternal damnation in hell somewhere down below. That was the universally accepted cosmology of the time. The reformers just asserted (like Paul before them) that God does not choose which group we're in based on anything we say, or do, or believe.	+	When the 16th century reformers spoke of election, they really did mean that God chooses some people for eternal salvation in heaven up in the sky, and God chooses others for eternal damnation in hell somewhere down below. That was the universally accepted cosmology of the time. The reformers just asserted (like Paul before them) that God does not choose which group we're in based on anything we say, or do, or believe. Hence "unconditional election."
		+
		+	I think the Reformers were right about the way God works, but their cosmology is now about 500 years out of date, and in need of a refresh. So to follow in their footsteps, to reform the reformers, we go back to the same source they did: The scriptures. In particular, today's passage from Romans 9.

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:41, 7 October 2017
Line 41:		Line 41:
	But mostly these days, when someone asks when I was saved, I'll just turn the question back around and ask them, "Saved from what? Or whom?" I actually do know what they mean--they generally mean "When were you saved from eternal damnation and the fires of hell?" but most people are too polite to say that.		But mostly these days, when someone asks when I was saved, I'll just turn the question back around and ask them, "Saved from what? Or whom?" I actually do know what they mean--they generally mean "When were you saved from eternal damnation and the fires of hell?" but most people are too polite to say that.

−	~~The~~ 16th ~~Century Reformers~~, like ~~most me~~	+	When the 16th century reformers spoke of election, they really did mean that God chooses some people for eternal salvation in heaven up in the sky, and God chooses others for eternal damnation in hell somewhere down below. That was the universally accepted cosmology of the time. The reformers just asserted (like Paul before them) that God does not choose which group we're in based on anything we say, or do, or believe.