Sermon for April 8th, 2018 - Revision history

Iraneal at 01:17, 8 April 2018

2018-04-08T01:17:04Z

Iraneal at 00:51, 8 April 2018

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Iraneal at 00:14, 8 April 2018

2018-04-08T00:14:31Z

Iraneal at 23:39, 7 April 2018

2018-04-07T23:39:49Z

Iraneal at 23:37, 7 April 2018

2018-04-07T23:37:49Z

Iraneal at 23:17, 7 April 2018

2018-04-07T23:17:29Z

Iraneal at 22:25, 7 April 2018

2018-04-07T22:25:35Z

Iraneal at 03:57, 4 April 2018

2018-04-04T03:57:39Z

Iraneal at 03:47, 4 April 2018

2018-04-04T03:47:29Z

Iraneal at 03:37, 4 April 2018

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 It's fascinating to me that Paul doesn't tell the Corinthians--hey, stop doing all those crazy things!  Stop speaking in tongues! Paul doesn't mention speaking in tongues in any of his letters to other churches, so it seems to be something the Corinthians were uniquely known for...and not in a good way.  It's the source of their problems.  But maybe it's also their "thing." So Paul says, don't forbid it...but do it in a way that makes sense, that helps people, and everybody take your turn.  In other words, within order and organization, there is still freedom for creativity, personality, and flexibility.  Don't stop being who you are.  Just think about how those things work best.
-The third and final principle is this:  Paul says that in worship, let all things be done for building up.   Notice he doesn't say who we're building up!  Each other?  Probably.  God?  Certainly.  Our community and our world?  Great.  The point is, we *don't ever* use worship to tear anyone or anything down.  That's the "decent" part of decently and in order.
+The third and final principle is this:  Paul says that in worship, let all things be done for building up.   Notice he doesn't say who we're building up!  Each other?  Probably.  God?  Certainly.  Our community and our world?  Great.  The point is, we *don't ever* use worship to tear anyone or anything down.  That's the "decent" part of decently and in order.   When you pray in worship, pray for something, not against something.  When you sing, sing to be part of something, not against it (I'm not going to sing because I don't like this song/hymn, or I don't know it, or I don't like the way I sound...or I want everyone to hear how great I sound!).
--communion
+And when you come to this table, come because you want to build yourself up in your faith and your relationship with God.  But also come to this table because you want to build up this community, to build up the other people around the table--here and around every table in every place of worship.

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 That reminds me of the church that made a large banner saying "Jesus is coming!" And someone scribbled underneath those words "Quick--everybody look busy."
-The word we translate as "order" is the Greek word τάξιν (taxin).  And no, that's not what we'll all be doing next week on April 15th.  τάξιν was a Greek military term that meant arranging things (specifically troops on a battlefield) in a specific and purposeful way.
+The word we translate as "order" is the Greek word τάξιν (taxin).  And no, that's not what the government does to us next Sunday on April 15th.  τάξιν was a Greek military term that meant arranging things (usually troops on a battlefield) in a specific and purposeful way--by rank and one after the other.
-Decently and in Order.  That's what it means, but how does it look, how does it apply to worship, in ancient Corinth, and here at First Presbyterian Church today?
+So.  Decently and in Order.  That's what it means, but how does it look, how does it apply to Christian worship, both in ancient Corinth, and also here at First Presbyterian Church today?
-When it comes to worship that is orderly, or organized, I glean three broad principles from this passage.  But before I launch into them, I want to address an elephant in the room (or, rather, in the Bible).  Some of you may have noticed that I left out a few verses of this passage, skipping from verse 33 to 39.  Those are the verses where "Paul" says that women should be silent in church, and if they have any questions, they should ask their husbands at home.
+Before I address that question, I want to address an elephant in the room (or, rather, in the Bible).  Some of you may have noticed that I left out a few verses of this passage, skipping from verse 33 to 39.  Those are the verses where "Paul" says that women should be silent in church, and if they have any questions, they should ask their husbands at home.
 I didn't include them in the scripture reading, because frankly, many biblical scholars believe that Paul never wrote those words.  In the oldest manuscripts, they actually appear at the very end of the chapter, like a footnote someone added after the fact.  They also contradict Paul's words in his other letters, where he clearly acknowledges and encourages women praying and teaching in the church--which is kind of hard to do silently.  These words do, however, match closely (almost word for word) with passages in other books that came decades or centuries later, from writers who were clearly not Paul, but writing in Paul's name. And in any case, Presbyterians long ago recognized the unique and valuable contributions that women bring to worship, as congregation members, leaders, and pastors.
-Three principles:
+If that sounds too constricting, like we're leaving no room for spontaneity or flexibility, then you might appreciate the second principle:  In all aspects of our worship, we are free to do what makes the most sense for our community and context.
-.  Do what makes sense for your context (freedom in order)
+It's fascinating to me that Paul doesn't tell the Corinthians--hey, stop doing all those crazy things!  Stop speaking in tongues! Paul doesn't mention speaking in tongues in any of his letters to other churches, so it seems to be something the Corinthians were uniquely known for...and not in a good way.  It's the source of their problems.  But maybe it's also their "thing." So Paul says, don't forbid it...but do it in a way that makes sense, that helps people, and everybody take your turn.  In other words, within order and organization, there is still freedom for creativity, personality, and flexibility.  Don't stop being who you are.  Just think about how those things work best.
-It's fascinating to me that Paul doesn't tell the Corinthians--hey, stop doing all those crazy things!  Stop speaking in tongues! Paul doesn't mention speaking in tongues in any of his letters to other churches, so it seems to be something the Corinthians were uniquely known for...and not in a good way.  It's the source of their problems.  But maybe it's also their "thing." So Paul says, don't forbid it...but do it in a way that makes sense, that helps people, and everybody take your turn.  In other words, within order and organization, there is still freedom for creativity and personality.  Don't stop being who you are.  Just think about
+The third and final principle is this:  Paul says that in worship, let all things be done for building up.   Notice he doesn't say who we're building up!  Each other?  Probably.  God?  Certainly.  Our community and our world?  Great.  The point is, we *don't ever* use worship to tear anyone or anything down.  That's the "decent" part of decently and in order.
-−
-.  Everything should be intentional, thought out (looks good)
-−
-.  build each other up
 -communion

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 Decently and in Order.  That's what it means, but how does it look, how does it apply to worship, in ancient Corinth, and here at First Presbyterian Church today?
-When it comes to worship that is orderly, or organized, I glean three broad principles from this passage.  But before I launch into them, I want to address an elephant in the room (or in the Bible).  Some of you may have noticed that I left out a few verses of this passage, skipping from verse 33 to 39.
+When it comes to worship that is orderly, or organized, I glean three broad principles from this passage.  But before I launch into them, I want to address an elephant in the room (or, rather, in the Bible).  Some of you may have noticed that I left out a few verses of this passage, skipping from verse 33 to 39.  Those are the verses where "Paul" says that women should be silent in church, and if they have any questions, they should ask their husbands at home.
 Three principles:

@@ Line 48: / Line 48: @@
 Decently and in Order.  That's what it means, but how does it look, how does it apply to worship, in ancient Corinth, and here at First Presbyterian Church today?
-When it comes to worship that is orderly, or organized, I glean three broad principles from this passage.  But before I launch into them, I want to address an elephant in the room (or in the Bible).  Some of you may have noticed that I left out a few verses of this passage, skipping from
+When it comes to worship that is orderly, or organized, I glean three broad principles from this passage.  But before I launch into them, I want to address an elephant in the room (or in the Bible).  Some of you may have noticed that I left out a few verses of this passage, skipping from verse 33 to 39.
-−
-It's fascinating to me that Paul doesn't tell the Corinthians--hey, stop doing all those crazy things!  Stop speaking in tongues! Paul doesn't mention speaking in tongues in any of his letters to other churches, so it seems to be something the Corinthians were uniquely known for...and not in a good way.  It's the source of their problems.  But maybe it's also their "thing." So Paul says, don't forbid it...but do it in a way that makes sense, that helps people, and everybody take your turn.  In other words, within order and organization, there is still freedom for creativity and personality.  Don't stop being who you are.  Just think about
 (women speaking in church)
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 Three principles:
--Do what makes sense for your context (freedom in order)
+.  Do what makes sense for your context (freedom in order)
 -Everything should be intentional, thought out (looks good)
--build each other up
+It's fascinating to me that Paul doesn't tell the Corinthians--hey, stop doing all those crazy things!  Stop speaking in tongues! Paul doesn't mention speaking in tongues in any of his letters to other churches, so it seems to be something the Corinthians were uniquely known for...and not in a good way.  It's the source of their problems.  But maybe it's also their "thing." So Paul says, don't forbid it...but do it in a way that makes sense, that helps people, and everybody take your turn.  In other words, within order and organization, there is still freedom for creativity and personality.  Don't stop being who you are.  Just think about
 -communion

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:37, 7 April 2018
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	It wasn't until years later that I learned those words actually came from scripture--today's scripture passage in 1 Corinthians 14. Even more surprising, the context of Paul's words to the church at Corinth was really familiar to me. People speaking in tongues all over the place, all at once, interrupting each other, chaos prevailing. And Paul urges them, when they gather for worship, to do everything decently and in order.		It wasn't until years later that I learned those words actually came from scripture--today's scripture passage in 1 Corinthians 14. Even more surprising, the context of Paul's words to the church at Corinth was really familiar to me. People speaking in tongues all over the place, all at once, interrupting each other, chaos prevailing. And Paul urges them, when they gather for worship, to do everything decently and in order.
		+
		+	What does that mean, decently and in order?
		+
		+	The word we translate as decently is the Greek word εὐσχημόνως (euskemonos), literally "good form" or "good appearance." It's Paul's way of reminding his church that other people, guests, visitors, non-Christians, are watching them and forming opinions about them. So at least try to look decent!
		+
		+	That reminds me of the church that made a large banner saying "Jesus is coming!" And someone scribbled underneath those words "Quick--everybody look busy."
		+
		+	The word we translate as "order" is the Greek word τάξιν (taxin). And no, that's not what we'll all be doing next week on April 15th. τάξιν was a Greek military term that meant arranging things (specifically troops on a battlefield) in a specific and purposeful way.
		+
		+	Decently and in Order. That's what it means, but how does it look, how does it apply to worship, in ancient Corinth, and here at First Presbyterian Church today?
		+
		+	When it comes to worship that is orderly, or organized, I glean three broad principles from this passage. But before I launch into them, I want to address an elephant in the room (or in the Bible). Some of you may have noticed that I left out a few verses of this passage, skipping from
		+
		+	It's fascinating to me that Paul doesn't tell the Corinthians--hey, stop doing all those crazy things! Stop speaking in tongues! Paul doesn't mention speaking in tongues in any of his letters to other churches, so it seems to be something the Corinthians were uniquely known for...and not in a good way. It's the source of their problems. But maybe it's also their "thing." So Paul says, don't forbid it...but do it in a way that makes sense, that helps people, and everybody take your turn. In other words, within order and organization, there is still freedom for creativity and personality. Don't stop being who you are. Just think about

	(women speaking in church)		(women speaking in church)

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 ==1 Corinthians 14:26-33, 39-40==
 What should be done then, my friends? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let them be silent in church and speak to themselves and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. 30 If a revelation is made to someone else sitting nearby, let the first person be silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of prophets are subject to the prophets, 33 for God is a God not of disorder but of peace.
 So, my friends, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues; 40 but all things should be done decently and in order.
 ==FPC Worship is Orderly==
-During a worship service at an old Presbyterian Church back in Scotland, when the Lord's prayer was said, half the congregants stood up and the other half remained seated. The half that was seated started yelling at those standing to sit down, and the ones standing yelled at the ones sitting to stand up... The young pastor, realizing this was something that hadn't been covered in seminary, was at a loss for a way forward.
+During a worship service at an old Presbyterian Church, when the Lord's prayer was said, half the congregants stood up and the other half remained seated. The half that was seated started yelling at those standing to sit down, and the ones standing yelled at the ones sitting to stand up... The young pastor, realizing this was something that hadn't been covered in seminary, was at a loss for a way forward.
 His congregation suggested that he consult the 102 year old matriarch of the church, who was one of the original church members. The pastor hoped the elderly woman would be able to tell him what the actual tradition was, so he went to the retirement home with a representative of each faction of the congregation.
@@ Line 19: / Line 18: @@
 Then the Pastor, in desperation, exclaimed, "But the congregants fight all the time, yelling at each other about whether they should sit or stand..."  And here the old woman interrupted, exclaiming, "Yes! THAT is the tradition!"
-This week and for the next six weeks, we are taking a closer look at WORSHIP... what it is, why we do it, what the scriptures have to say about it, and how we do it here at First Presbyterian Church--standing up, sitting down, yelling at each other, or any other tradition you might raise an eyebrow about!
+This week and for the next six weeks, we are taking a closer look at WORSHIP... what it is, why we do it, what the scriptures have to say about it, and how we do it here at First Presbyterian Church--standing up, sitting down, singing in unison or yelling at each other.
-To help us remember some fundamental principles of Presbyterian Worship, I like to use the acronym WORSHIP: Worship, for us, is Welcoming, Orderly, Reformed, Sacred, Honest, Intellectual, and Public.  Last week, we talked about how we strive to create worship that is welcoming to all people, regardless of background, faith tradition, politics, sexual orientation, age, or income.  That's actually a relatively new tradition in Presbyterian Worship,  but one we fully embrace.
+To help us remember some fundamental principles of Presbyterian Worship, I like to use the acronym WORSHIP: Worship, for us, is Welcoming, Orderly, Reformed, Sacred, Honest, Intellectual, and Public.  Last week, we talked about how we strive to create worship that is welcoming to all people.  Today we're going to talk about how Presbyterian Worship is orderly.  If that word isn't your favorite, you could just as equally substitute the word "organized" without messing up the acronym.  But before we delve into what it means for worship to be orderly or organized, I want to share a story from my own faith journey:
-Today we're going to talk about a much older aspect of Presbyterian Worship--one that goes back to the very beginning of our movement:  Presbyterian Worship is orderly.  If that word isn't your favorite, you could just as equally substitute the word "organized" without messing up the acronym.  But before we delve into what it means for worship to be orderly or organized, I want to share a story from my own faith journey:
+Many of you know that although I am a Presbyterian minister, I grew up Methodist, but then went to a pentecostal/charismatic college for my undergraduate degree.  Oral Roberts University, named after the famous (or infamous) televangelist who founded the university in 1967.
-Although my ancestors were, in fact, Presbyterian, I was raised in the Methodist church--St. Mark's United Methodist Church right here in El Paso, in the upper valley on Love Road.  If there's any church out there that shares with Presbyterians a love for order and organization, it's the Methodists.  As their very name implies, they take a methodical approach to worship.  And I was comfortable in that tradition, growing up.  I liked being able to look at a bulletin (which you didn't even need after three or four services) to know what was just happened, what was happening, and what was about to happen in the worship service. And when I was a little older, I liked knowing that everything that happened in worship was for a reason or a purpose, could be traced back to some aspect of scripture or church tradition which had evolved over the years through trial and error.  Basically, worship was something that had been carefully thought out, and as a thoughtful person, that appealed to me.
+Weekly chapel services at ORU (which were mandatory for all students, incidentally--they took attendance) usually began with four or five hymns or songs, followed by announcements, prayer, scripture and a sermon. Nothing too crazy.  But that's usually right about where things completely fell apart--somewhere in the middle or near the end of the sermon.
-And then, for a variety of reasons that I won't go into today (that's a story long enough to be its own sermon!), when I went to college I left El Paso behind and ended up 825 miles away in Tulsa, Oklahoma, at a place called Oral Roberts University--probably the most pentecostal, charismatic, evangelical university in the country.
+Someone in the congregation (or sometimes the preacher) would invariably stand up, interrupting whatever was already happening, and in a loud voice, start speaking in tongues.  If you're not familiar with that phenomenon, it's basically where someone speaks in what sounds like an unintelligible language, and this is supposed to be a sign of the Holy Spirit working within that person.
-If I had owned a little black dog in those first weeks at Oral Roberts University, you probably would have heard me tell it (often) "I've got a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore, Toto."
+Pretty soon others would do the same, and before long the entire chapel (about 3,000 students) would descend into a chaotic cacophony of unintelligible mumbling...or screaming.  But there was more:  Sometimes (again, supposedly under the influence of the Holy Spirit) people would start jumping up and down and flailing their arms frantically.  Sometimes people would collapse, writhing on the floor, or lie perfectly still.  They called that being "slain" in the spirit.  I can remember chapel services where hundreds of students burst out into spontaneous, uncontrollable laughter, then tears, as well as services where people claimed to be miraculously healed from all sorts of ailments or injuries, and were then paraded around the stage for all to see.
-Weekly chapel services at ORU (which were mandatory for all students, incidentally--they took attendance) began with four or five praise choruses from the worship band...or sometimes fifteen or sixteen praise choruses.  Sometimes there were announcements, or sometimes prayer; usually there was a sermon, sometimes preceded by a reading from the Bible...and sometimes they just talked *about* the Bible a lot without ever quoting anything from it.  But that's usually right about where things completely fell apart--right in the middle of the sermon, or I guess near the "end" of it:
+If there was one consistency amidst all this, it was that the worship service usually ended in utter chaos. My first few chapels, I wasn't sure when exactly it was appropriate to leave the service without being counted absent.
-Someone in the congregation would stand up and start speaking in tongues--or sometimes it would be the preacher.  Pretty soon others would do the same, and before long the entire chapel (about 3,000 students) would descend into a chaotic cacophony of unintelligible mumbling...or screaming.  Or sometimes people would start jumping up and down and flailing frantically.  Sometimes people would collapse, writhing on the floor, or lie perfectly still.  They called that being "slain" in the spirit.  I can remember chapel services where hundreds of students burst out into spontaneous, uncontrollable laughter, then tears, as well as services where people claimed to be miraculously healed from all sorts of ailments or injuries, and were then paraded around the stage for all to see.
+When people ask me about my time at Oral Roberts University, often I'll say, "Yeah, I went there, but I didn't drink the kool-aid."  That's true enough.  Although I genuinely tried a few times to be "slain in the spirit" or to let myself get caught up in the emotion and sensationalism of the moment, I was never really able to.  That's not meant to imply condemnation or even disapproval of my fellow ORU students.  I had a lot of good friends there--sincere, intelligent Christians for whom those chapel services were deeply meaningful.  They found God in the midst of the chaos, while I was more prone to find God in the quiet little Methodist church I attended just down the street.
-If there was one consistency amidst all this, it was that the worship service usually ended in utter chaos. At first, I wasn't sure when exactly it was appropriate to even leave the service without being counted absent.  But when I saw my student Resident Advisor (the one taking attendance for my dorm) "slain in the spirit" I usually figured it was safe enough.
+Years later, when I became a Presbyterian, I learned that one of the "mottoes" of the Presbyterian church "All things are to be done decently and in order."  I thought it was just a motto, reflecting the tendency of Presbyterians to be prim and proper, with a fondness for over-analyzing things and referring them to an endless slew of committees.  Decently and in order.
-I also quickly learned that classes after chapel rarely ever started on time, so often I would wander off campus, walking just down the street to the tiny little Methodist church I attended on Sundays, wandering into the pastor's office, where I would plop down on a chair and ask, with a confused look on my face..."what do WE believe?"
+It wasn't until years later that I learned those words actually came from scripture--today's scripture passage in 1 Corinthians 14.  Even more surprising, the context of Paul's words to the church at Corinth was really familiar to me.  People speaking in tongues all over the place, all at once, interrupting each other, chaos prevailing.  And Paul urges them, when they gather for worship, to do everything decently and in order.
-When people ask me about my time at Oral Roberts University, often I'll say, "Yeah, I went there, but I didn't drink the kool-aid."  That's true enough.  Although I genuinely tried a few times to be "slain in the spirit" or to let myself get caught up in the emotion and sensationalism of the moment, I was never really able to.  That's not meant to imply condemnation or even disapproval of my fellow ORU students.  I had a lot of good friends there--sincere, intelligent Christians for whom those chapel services were deeply meaningful.  They found God in the midst of the chaos, while I found God in the quiet order and thoughtful ritual of the little Methodist church down the street.
+(women speaking in church)
-Eventually, I became a Presbyterian--or rather, I learned that God had predestined me before the foundation of the earth to be a Presbyterian. And I quickly learned that one of the "mottoes" of the Presbyterian church that goes right back to the 16th century reformation is "All things are to be done decently and in order."  I thought it was just a motto, reflecting the tendency of Presbyterians to be prim and proper, with a fondness for over-analyzing things and referring them to various committees.  Decently and in order.
+Three principles:
-It wasn't until years later that I learned those words actually came from scripture--today's scripture passage in 1 Corinthians 14.  Even more surprising, the context of Paul's words to the church at Corinth was really familiar to me.  People speaking in tongues all over the place, all at once, interrupting each other, chaos and disorder. If you read the rest of Paul's letters to the Corinthians, you realize that
+-Do what makes sense for your context (freedom in order)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:57, 4 April 2018
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	When people ask me about my time at Oral Roberts University, often I'll say, "Yeah, I went there, but I didn't drink the kool-aid." That's true enough. Although I genuinely tried a few times to be "slain in the spirit" or to let myself get caught up in the emotion and sensationalism of the moment, I was never really able to. That's not meant to imply condemnation or even disapproval of my fellow ORU students. I had a lot of good friends there--sincere, intelligent Christians for whom those chapel services were deeply meaningful. They found God in the midst of the chaos, while I found God in the quiet order and thoughtful ritual of the little Methodist church down the street.		When people ask me about my time at Oral Roberts University, often I'll say, "Yeah, I went there, but I didn't drink the kool-aid." That's true enough. Although I genuinely tried a few times to be "slain in the spirit" or to let myself get caught up in the emotion and sensationalism of the moment, I was never really able to. That's not meant to imply condemnation or even disapproval of my fellow ORU students. I had a lot of good friends there--sincere, intelligent Christians for whom those chapel services were deeply meaningful. They found God in the midst of the chaos, while I found God in the quiet order and thoughtful ritual of the little Methodist church down the street.

−	Eventually,	+	Eventually, I became a Presbyterian--or rather, I learned that God had predestined me before the foundation of the earth to be a Presbyterian.

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 Sometimes someone in the congregation would stand up and start speaking in tongues--or sometimes it would be the preacher.  Pretty soon others would do the same, and before long the entire chapel (about 3,000 students) would descend into a chaotic cacophony of unintelligible mumbling...or screaming.  Or sometimes people would start jumping up and down and flailing frantically.  Sometimes people would collapse, writhing on the floor, or lie perfectly still.  They called that being "slain" in the spirit.  I can remember chapel services where hundreds of students burst out into spontaneous, uncontrollable laughter, then tears, as well as services where people claimed to be miraculously healed from all sorts of ailments or injuries, and were then paraded around the stage for all to see.
-If there was one consistency amidst all this, it was that the worship service usually ended in utter chaos. At first, I wasn't sure when exactly it was appropriate to even leave the service without being counted absent.  But when my student Resident Advisor (the one taking attendance for my dorm) was "slain in the spirit" I usually figured it was safe enough.
+If there was one consistency amidst all this, it was that the worship service usually ended in utter chaos. At first, I wasn't sure when exactly it was appropriate to even leave the service without being counted absent.  But when I saw my student Resident Advisor (the one taking attendance for my dorm) "slain in the spirit" I usually figured it was safe enough.
 I also quickly learned that classes after chapel rarely ever started on time, so often I would wander off campus, walking just down the street to the tiny little Methodist church I attended on Sundays, wandering into the pastor's office, where I would plop down on a chair and ask, with a confused look on my face..."what do WE believe?"