Difference between revisions of "Emergent Church Questions"

Revision as of 22:40, 27 August 2007

Neal,

I'm switching to my personal email account now that I've reached you.

Thanks so much for your willingness to engage. I sincerely appreciate it. I have really been hungry to learn about the EC movement and there is a lot of stuff swimming around my little coconut.

Neal,

Sorry, I accidentally hit the send button on that last email. To continue.

I've been reading so much about the movement and have tried hard not to pre-judge (although I confess I have done so). As I continue to read up on it, I find my judgments are not holding up. Many things about the movement make sense and are attractive. I still have concerns though. One thing I've noticed is, it seems generationally narrow in its focus. I would think if something is from God it's got to be accessible/appealing to the broadest cross-section of people. You mentioned in your email not to look for concrete answers nor doctrinal positions. Is it the view of the EC'er that doctrine is unimportant or a non-issue? One reason our Pastor is so keyed up about EC and EV is he believes it can rekindle the appreciation of the mystery of God , rather than cling to things like reason which tries to explain everything. I confess, most of my ideas about God are the product of a modern mind. I do cling to things like reason. It seems inescapable to me. The other thing I'm having a hard time picturing about EC, and maybe this is where you can be of most help, is how the EC works in it's practical applications. Is it just about getting along with everyone in the world? How would you answer someone who is poor and has little education if they asked the question: who is God and what is He like? I realize that EC is non-traditional but, are there any non-negotiables when it comes to the faith itself?

I think one of the biggest things that has blown many (but not all) of my fears out of the water was reading Brian McLaren's open letter to Chuck Colson. I'm sure you've read it. I think that letter had to have done more to mend fences and engender understanding between Christians than anything I can think of recently. Do you know if Colson ever responded to that letter? Well, I guess I've thrown a lot out there already and I'm sure I have a lot of misconceptions. Anxious to hear your responses.

Peace and God bless, Chris ;-)

Hi Chris -- I'm going to try to respond to your questions as best as I can by interspersing comments in your original email below (in red). Please remember that I don't speak "officially" for any particular organization, including the PCUSA, but just from my own point of view, which my wife tells me sometimes goes off the deep end! Nevertheless, I hope you find it useful.

I've been reading so much about the movement and have tried hard not to pre-judge (although I confess I have done so). As I continue to read up on it, I find my judgments are not holding up. Many things about the movement make sense and are attractive. I still have concerns though.

Good. I hope you continue to have concerns and questions and doubts and preconceived notions throughout your spiritual journey. It's what makes us human. And, it's what keeps things like "The Reformation" or "The Emerging Church" from becoming idols that we worship in lieu of God.

One thing I've noticed is, it seems generationally narrow in its focus. I would think if something is from God it's got to be accessible/appealing to the broadest cross-section of people. 

Hmmm. I agree with accessible, and if the EC fails in this respect, your concern would be correct. "Appealing" however, not so much. In fact, there is much that comes from God that doesn't appeal to the masses (think of the OT prophets, for example). When I think of generations, I often think of my parents: they are quite content and find God easily within the religious systems of the modern age. I have no right to take that away from them. But those systems that have worked so well for them are failing for those who are coming of age in a postmodern world. (Check out anything by George Barna for more on this). Actually, I think it's more than generational shift -- I think (as do many in the EC) that we're in the midst of a large scale historical and cultural shift, much like the one that led from the Medieval period into the Renaissance and Reformation.

You mentioned in your email not to look for concrete answers nor doctrinal positions. Is it the view of the EC'er that doctrine is unimportant or a non-issue?

Just for clarification, what do you mean when you say "EC'er?" Personally, I don't think that doctrine is unimportant -- I just think that in the past 50 years, we have given it way too much importance -- to the point where the Christian church is fragmented into a million pieces over doctrinal issues like "baptism by immersion or by sprinkling?" A lot of Emerging Churches I've visited use a very simple doctrinal statement, if they use one at all, for example, The Apostle's Creed.

One reason our Pastor is so keyed up about EC and EV is he believes it can rekindle the appreciation of the mystery of God , rather than cling to things like reason which tries to explain everything. I confess, most of my ideas about God are the product of a modern mind. I do cling to things like reason. It seems inescapable to me.

I believe there is room in the Kingdom of God for Modern thinkers and Post-Modern thinkers alike. I think it would be just as much a mistake for someone to force an "emergent" way of thinking upon a non-emergent person as it would be for a modern person to reject or dismiss the EC out of hand. You may be a modernist, but I am glad and grateful that you are approaching this in earnest and with attempt at an open mind. I hope your pastor appreciates and respects that about you as well.

The other thing I'm having a hard time picturing about EC, and maybe this is where you can be of most help, is how the EC works in it's practical applications. Is it just about getting along with everyone in the world? How would you answer someone who is poor and has little education if they asked the question: who is God and what is He like? I realise that EC is non-traditional but, are there any non-negotiables when it comes to the faith itself?

That's a big question (how does EC work in practical applications), and perhaps too broad for me to condense into a paragraph. There is an excellent book on just that subject, however. It's called Emerging Worship by Dan Kimball. It's the second in a series, the first being "The Emerging Church" which kind of goes in more depth about some of the issues we're discussing here. Getting along with everyone in the world is certainly a great place to start. If only it were that easy, right?

Who is God and what is He like? Is there a simple answer to that question? Perhaps one of the things I like about the EC is that it seems to acknowledge that there are no simple answers, even to one who is poor and with little education. But there is something better than an answer, and that is a relationship. I may not be able to condense God into a five to ten word sentence, but I hope that by living the way Jesus taught us, and loving others the way he loved us, my life can in part answer that question for others.

As far as non-negotiables, would you mind if I asked you first what you consider to be the non-negotiables in faith? That might better help me guage what we're getting at here...

I think one of the biggest things that has blown many (but not all) of my fears out of the water was reading Brian McLaren's open letter to Chuck Colson. I'm sure you've read it. I think that letter had to have done more to mend fences and engender understanding between Christians than anything I can think of recently. Do you know if Colson ever responded to that letter?

Yes. He did. And his response is intelligent, well-worded and thought out, but also very much unmoving in any of his traditional positions. If I can find the link, I'll email it to you. Perhaps it just proves that intelligent people, Christians even, can still disagree about things of great importance. Does that mean that Colson is right and McLaren is wrong? Or the other way around? I don't know. Is it possible for two intelligent Christians to both be right when they disagree completely? Or perhaps they are both wrong? I do think we tend to turn many things into win-lose situations in our culture. I don't know if that's ultimately helpful or not. But I liked McLaren's open letter to Colson, too. Actually, I like most everything I've read from Brian McLaren, especially his "New Kind of Christian" trilogy.

Well, I guess I've thrown a lot out there already and I'm sure I have a lot of misconceptions. Anxious to hear your responses.

Keep 'em coming! After all, I did say it's all about relationships, right? Take care, and I look forward to hearing from you again shortly,

Neal

Hey Neal,

Thanks for responding. What you had to say was very interesting. I'll try to follow up the same way you did. Although I'm an artist that works with computers, I wouldn't call myself super tech-savvy. I don't know HTML and I can't write code, so I can't get my emails to look extra fancy with a cherry on top ;-)

Hmmm.  I agree with accessible, and if the EC fails in this respect, your concern would be correct.  "Appealing" however, not so much.  In fact, there is much that comes from God that doesn't appeal to the masses (think of the OT prophets, for example).

True. I actually even questioned the word "appealing" when I added it because I wasn't really sure if it was conveying what I was trying to express. I agree that so often what comes from God may ostensibly seem counterintuitive and thereby unappealing.

But those systems that have worked so well for them are failing for those who are coming of age in a postmodern world.  (Check out anything by George Barna for more on this).  Actually, I think it's more than generational shift -- I think (as do many in the EC) that we're in the midst of a large scale historical and cultural shift, much like the one that led from the Medieval period into the Renaissance and Reformation.

I'd like to ask your opinion here. I have the notion that a big reason that previous systems are "failing for those who are coming of age in a postmodern world", is because Christians have failed to effectively communicate Christ in an alien culture. You know, the "E" word. In the church I attend, evangelism seems to be a foreign concept. I'm not talking about sending missionaries out to Tibet. I'm talking about simple conversations about God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit to our friends and neighbors. There really are people around today, in this country who have never heard the simple story of Jesus Christ.

Okay, I'm going to go on a bit of a soapbox now to help you better understand who I am and where I'm at.

It seems to me, in order for people to begin to take the risk of striking up a conversation with someone about God, Jesus, the bible, whatever, they have to have a certain amount of conviction in their hearts in regards to what it is they are talking about. If the conviction isn't there a person will almost assuredly be disinclined to share something he may not be truly convinced of himself. I'll give you one very typical example. There is a sweet little old lady in my church that I interact with all the time. She has admitted to me that she can't conceive of heaven and doesn't really believe that it's a place we may have the hope of possibly going to. I respectfully asked her once: so then, what is your hope? Her answer was, "to be remembered." I thought to myself (but didn't say it) you really don't have to call yourself a Christian to have that hope. She's very bright, a former schoolteacher and has rationalized away all aspects of the possibility of an afterlife. Now I love her to death, but she is one of those people that doesn't really talk about faith matters outside of church and can't conceive of it. I see two main reasons for her apprehension (there is another but I'll let that one go for now). One is the prevailing cultural view that matters of faith and religion should be privatized and the other is her feeling unconvicted. I understand the danger of conviction and of being too sure. Conviction can produce stridency, and thereby produce the separation and enmity that you mentioned in another part of your last email. But I honestly don't believe that evangelism, sharing, or even pointing out the possibility about how "you may be wrong, have you ever considered this?", must preclude loving kindness, patience, grace, and winsomeness in communication. This may be a crass way of putting it, but I heard someone once say: "The secret of good sales is knowing when to back off." I think if love is constantly undergirding your testimony, then what you have to say to others will not appear obnoxious or repugnant. I think when I came to the understanding that I didn't have to win every argument, and all I'm trying to do is effectively communicate Christ to others, then it really took the pressure off. So now, evangelism to me is just the planting of a seed. Let the rest be between God and them.

Was that long-winded enough for you? ;-)

Just for clarification, what do you mean when you say "EC'er?"

Sorry, I'm probably not being very accurate with my terms. I guess I'm probably still assuming that all those in the EC movement have typically common views. I understand this is not a denomination. I'm not sure what I meant. I'll just drop that term from here on out.

I believe there is room in the Kingdom of God for Modern thinkers and Post-Modern thinkers alike.  I think it would be just as much a mistake for someone to force an "emergent" way of thinking upon a non-emergent person as it would be for a modern person to reject or dismiss the EC out of hand.  You may be a modernist, but I am glad and grateful that you are approaching this in earnest and with attempt at an open mind. I hope your pastor appreciates and respects that about you as well.

I hope he does too ;-) He and I really need to have more up-front conversations on the topic. As hepped up as he is about the EC movement I do sense a kind of "forcing" going on. A lot of his sermons are along the lines of "something's coming so get out of the way." My interp. He Also seems to subtly deride those who may have concerns about it or post-modernism in general.

Getting along with everyone in the world is certainly a great place to start.  If only it were that easy, right?

Right! It's not that easy.

Another question I have is: How does the EC, or maybe I should say the post-modern Christian, view the bible? I somehow have this picture in my head of people coming along with a big black sharpie marker, opening the bible, and in line-item veto fashion start saying: I like this, I like this, oh, I don't like this at all so let's cross this out, I like this, nope, not that. I personally want the whole gospel and the whole bible to consider. I could be (and probably am) wrong but I have this conception that the post-modern Christian (again excuse any loose use of terms) wants to keep all the peace, love, and, happiness, and toss anything to do with behavior. I'm reminded of a bible verse (can't recall chapter and verse) that says basically, "behold, the goodness and severity of God". It seems as though churches in the past have divided along these lines (among others), and it seems as though when they got into trouble was when they emphasised one aspect over the other, and became extreme in their view. I think to understand God's nature more fully we have to understand Him as being both good AND severe. I'm preaching now aren't I? :-0

As far as non-negotiables, would you mind if I asked you first what you consider to be the non-negotiables in faith?  That might better help me guage what we're getting at here...

I'm thinking some of what I've said already may have answered this for you. I guess, and here is where it gets hard, the main non-negotiable for me is that Jesus is the way. Although I have never been an atheist I kind of am in agreement with C.S. Lewis when he said: "If you are a Christian, you are free to think that all religions, even the queerest ones, contain at least some hint of the truth. When I was an atheist (not me, him) I had to try to persuade myself that most of the human race have always been wrong about the question that mattered to them most; when I became a Christian I was able to take a more liberal view. But, of course, being a Christian does mean thinking that where Christianity differs from other religions, Christianity is right and they are wrong. As in arithmetic - there is only one right answer to a sum, and all other answers are wrong: but some of the wrong answers are much nearer being right than others." Probably the other main non-negotiable for me is that Jesus died and truly resurrected and appeared to a number of people afterward. This to me is the lynchpin of Christianity and I don't see how there is any wriggle room there, or how one can rationalize it away and still call it Christianity.

Perhaps it just proves that intelligent people, Christians even, can still disagree about things of great importance.

I've often said this very thing myself.

Does that mean that Colson is right and McLaren is wrong?  Or the other way around?  I don't know. 

Me neither.

Is it possible for two intelligent Christians to both be right when they disagree completely?  Or perhaps they are both wrong?  I do think we tend to turn many things into win-lose situations in our culture. I don't know if that's ultimately helpful or not.

I agree, it shouldn't be a win-lose. I guess some of my apprehension was that I felt our pastor has been kind of portraying it as such. But again that could just be my inference.

Keep 'em coming!  After all, I did say it's all about relationships, right?  Take care, and I look forward to hearing from you again shortly,

You may disagree, but I think we may be kindred spirits of a sort. I've used this phrase often: "It's all about relationships." Some of my conservative friends even tease me about it (I just laugh, 'cause it's good-natured kidding) saying "wow Chris, you're really getting all touchy-feely these days." ;-) Just lately, my wife threw a big surprise birthday party for me and she invited a lot of old and new friends. I was so surprised and moved, when I thanked them for coming I said: "It's really all about relationships", and wept!

Looking forward to your responses!

Peace and God bless, Chris ;-)